Balance recap

Discuss your favorite character builds and team compositions.
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LRM
Vanguard Supporter
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Joined: 04 Mar 2016, 10:16

Re: Balance recap

Postby LRM » 27 Apr 2016, 19:08

We'll test that out when it comes out !

ManuKuma
Posts: 313
Joined: 11 Feb 2015, 17:59

Re: Balance recap

Postby ManuKuma » 30 Apr 2016, 22:41

Be careful to not equalize too much - shooters (fps and topdown, e.g. BF3, TF2) usually manage to balance autoshotgun, mp, assault rifle and sniper rifle quite well. I think a similar spread would be good and also doable in Das Tal. Range, Firerate, Damage, Accuracy, Reloadtime and Clipsize are the typical balancing values in a shooter - in Das Tal this maps to Range, Cooldown+Casttime, Damage, AutoAim/AoE, Cooldown+EnergyRegeneration and Energy + a lot more complexity due to less simplistic skill effects ...

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LRM
Vanguard Supporter
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Joined: 04 Mar 2016, 10:16

Re: Balance recap

Postby LRM » 17 May 2016, 18:16

I just realized something: it really shouldn't cost any mana to gank a fallen enemy.
You already have been through a lot of trouble to kill him, on top of that you are on a timer (his friends can stop you ganking him, and he will get a revive).
Finally the mana cost makes 1v2 impossible to win, you'd have to spend 25% percent to 50% of your mana pool only on ganks, which is kinda sad imo.

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dbltnk
Game Developer
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Joined: 27 Feb 2014, 12:52

Re: Balance recap

Postby dbltnk » 18 May 2016, 10:09

Agreed, ganking and rezzing is pretty hard to pull off nowadays. I've reduced mana costs by 50% to make it a bit easier. Let's see if totally free is necessary, I still want ganks/rezzed to be a decision for you to make not only based on time spent but also on energy.

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VVish
Posts: 12
Joined: 22 May 2016, 00:41
Location: Unknown Wasteland.

Re: Balance recap

Postby VVish » 22 May 2016, 01:17

I would like to add a bit about Determination.
So far I though that Determination bar is getting consumed when you receive some CC effect (like, 100 per slow tick, 200 per root, 300 per stun etc), but I ran into understanding that you need the bar as high as possible, which is kinda strange.

For me as a newcomer it was kinda strange to realise, that it actually forces you to max your CC abilities as high as possible to get at least any effect. It also misleading quite alot newcomers who read "2 sec stun, 2 sec root" and instead see some people (running Robe or Splint) like ignoring nearly completely their CC abilities.

Returning to Determination being consumed - a lot of stuff can be done here. Abilities to raise your's companions Determination, armors to have it different on the basis of regeneration and maximum amount regenerated, that kind of stuff.

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dbltnk
Game Developer
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Joined: 27 Feb 2014, 12:52

Re: Balance recap

Postby dbltnk » 22 May 2016, 20:12

Give us two weeks and you'll see a re-design of determination in the patch notes.

Nysek
Posts: 22
Joined: 01 Mar 2017, 12:33

Re: Balance recap

Postby Nysek » 01 Mar 2017, 13:23

A few things just make very little sense to me...

Splint Mail
  • Obviously a tanking armor but has zero burst/DoT potential unlike leather/cloth.
  • Has zero gap closers besides aggressive leap, which can completely fizzle even with proper LoS/pathing.
  • The only offensive damaging ability, aggressive leap, doesn't scale well damage wise nor start with reasonable damage for it's cooldown.
  • Meat shield duration starts poor, I can't even bring myself to level it up to see it's potential.

Seriously only last maybe one second, if someone could confirm it increases in duration as it levels that would be nice.

  • "Fields" - If it wasn't for the cost per second... I'd actively use at least one of these.
Instead of a "silencing field" a "pbAoE silence would've had far more effect with a considerable duration. Dampening Field on the other hand is solid but simply costs too much to consider compared to other skills that would be more optimal in most situations..

  • Transform pain - Not being able to attack during it's use is a bit frustrating. Definitely a reactive skill with high risk unless used properly.
  • Sponge Form/Rock Form - More information if debuffs scale each rank would be helpful.
Totem

  • Muck and Burst : dealing roughly half of their damage at close range seems extreme... Muck at least has a slow and damage debuff but burst isn't a DPS improvement if not used at max range.
  • Gravity Well : Unless this ability gains a direct damage hit or higher DoT it feels extremely lackluster. The energy DoT hardly makes up for it, it's a long cooldown and cast time displacer... so it has a use but definitely should at least deal more damage either via direct damage or DoT.
  • A weapon line with a single target DoT, Cone AoE DoT, and displacement AoE DoT kinda seems... well pointless. If any are in use, only one will apply any effect.
  • Two of the three current DoT's (mainly AoE's as they even overwrite ally and enemy DoT's) should be considered to deal persistent direct damage, rather than a DoT effect.
  • HoT's have the same problem as DoT's, between rejuvenation and healing totem you end up not being able to make use of one of these effects. Currently can only consider running rejuvenation and healing seed, as at least gain a benefit from both at all times.
  • Banish : Trying to love this ability... but with it stunning for 3-6 seconds and being easily outdone by DoT effects (which go through invul) kinda is a waste of a skill slot.

Every other skill in both that isn't mentioned has "a" use, even if it's a small niche one. Suppression and Protective Bubble both have their place and are interesting in their own ways for sure. Energy Drain is also handy to sap someone's energy. And hell droplets at least has a use simply because as long as you land attacks you don't miss out on CQC damage unlike muck. Which if muck was changed to not be hit as hard during CQC, obviously Droplets would need a buff.

But honestly playing roughly 4-5 days with Splint Mail... I can see why most players stick to cloth or leather. You get escapes, gap closers, better counters to CC, and simply are superior choices. Cloth having stealth, speed, escapes/gap closers, det booster, and burst just seems... well special.

Leather is mostly based on counter play, preparation, and mobility along with CC clears.

Splint Mail?... Well their first two abilities are probably the best options for overall versatility. After that you're looking at juggernaught, aggressive leap, and self-sacrifice. Meditation is nice but it's a "well I found a moment to regen" ability. The fields eat energy to where they are kinda pointless, while silencing field builds determination so fast you're going to instantly give them CC immunity. And well transform pain is situational (as it stops your DPS)... but would probably replace juggernaught.

If meat shield lasted longer (which it better at higher ranks) I can see it's usefulness for "stack wars" but only if it makes a barrier others cannot simply walk through. Displacements like hook shot, swap, and other such things obviously can handle it from there... but this ability doesn't seem fully thought out and seems like a attempt at using a "wall" like in MMOs that have collision.

The idea splint mail has less CC clearing and immunity than Cloth or Leather is disturbing.... you could easily drop sponge form and meat shield to make room for such abilities.


And my biggest issue.... I should be allowed to see "what" my abilities are getting per upgrade without hitting apply. Scaling is strange enough as is, but I really shouldn't have to check each point for how much it improved.
Last edited by Nysek on 03 Mar 2017, 20:59, edited 1 time in total.

Nysek
Posts: 22
Joined: 01 Mar 2017, 12:33

Re: Balance recap

Postby Nysek » 02 Mar 2017, 17:47

Also noticed very quickly that cooldowns tend to go down for most abilities per level... why is this information not readily available?

Duration, Cooldown, and Cost should all be covered in a tooltip. Not to mention if an ability is an AoE, a radius should also be specified in said tooltip.

Revitalize also claims to scale from .1 to .2, guessing the tooltip means 10% to 20% but at .2 scaling it increasing healing by 30% rather than 20%. Not that this makes it crazy OP seeing as it is a skillshot unlike staff's healing. Not to mention staff healing CD are lower than Totem.


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