Question about Elegance/Efficiency

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zerus
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Question about Elegance/Efficiency

Postby zerus » 23 May 2016, 16:37

Hey,

so it's my understanding that this is still how elegance/efficiency works:
Players and clans get ranked by:

Elegance = dominion / (aggression + clan size over time + alliance size over time)
Efficiency = growth / (aggression + clan size over time + alliance size over time)
Minor stats tracked:

Dominion = end fight win + cities owned over time+ resource spots owned over time+ treasures found + sieges won - deaths
Growth = ress gained + ress used + levels gained
Agression = kills + ganks + sieges started + resources attacked


I feel like the numbers here are a bit off. Right now, Khantucky Fried Chicken owns every resource camp on the map since they're cappable(except for 1). We have 7 points in elegance and 180 in efficiency with thousands and thousands of resources gained/used, very few deaths and a siege running. We've got so many resources that we've stated to kill our own caravans for the XP.

I suspect that Aggression is extremely lowering our points here. If so, why?

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dbltnk
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Re: Question about Elegance/Efficiency

Postby dbltnk » 24 May 2016, 12:02

Your info is outdated.

- Clans gain respect by donating resources to the valley defense (donation tents, G menu), by getting respect from players (P menu) and by defeating Jailors in the end fight (last hours of the server).
- Elegance is calculated through dividing the clan's respect value by the amount of violence enacted (kills, ganks, offensive sieges etc.).
- Efficiency is calculated through dividing the clan's respect value by it's player-hours spent in-game.
- Individual players can gain respect by getting respect from players (P menu) and by defeating Jailors in the end fight (last hours of the server).

[edit] The elegance leaderboards still seems to be broken a bit right now, is on our to-do list.

zerus
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Joined: 04 Nov 2015, 21:00

Re: Question about Elegance/Efficiency

Postby zerus » 24 May 2016, 12:07

Thanks for clearing that up! New formula seems to make more sense as well.

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dbltnk
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Re: Question about Elegance/Efficiency

Postby dbltnk » 24 May 2016, 12:29

Thanks for the feedback mate. =D

ManuKuma
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Re: Question about Elegance/Efficiency

Postby ManuKuma » 24 May 2016, 17:06

dbltnk wrote:- Clans gain respect by donating resources to the valley defense (donation tents, G menu), by getting respect from players (P menu) and by defeating Jailors in the end fight (last hours of the server).
- Elegance is calculated through dividing the clan's respect value by the amount of violence enacted (kills, ganks, offensive sieges etc.).
- Efficiency is calculated through dividing the clan's respect value by it's player-hours spent in-game.


So Elegance and Efficiency are quite optimizeable?
e.g. have a micro-clan as the receiver of resources from the worker-clan, do donations with it ( the worker-clan will do the defending), and keep the one member of the micro-clan out of fights and out of game for most of the time ?

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dbltnk
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Re: Question about Elegance/Efficiency

Postby dbltnk » 24 May 2016, 18:38

ManuKuma wrote:
dbltnk wrote:- Clans gain respect by donating resources to the valley defense (donation tents, G menu), by getting respect from players (P menu) and by defeating Jailors in the end fight (last hours of the server).
- Elegance is calculated through dividing the clan's respect value by the amount of violence enacted (kills, ganks, offensive sieges etc.).
- Efficiency is calculated through dividing the clan's respect value by it's player-hours spent in-game.


So Elegance and Efficiency are quite optimizeable?
e.g. have a micro-clan as the receiver of resources from the worker-clan, do donations with it ( the worker-clan will do the defending), and keep the one member of the micro-clan out of fights and out of game for most of the time ?

Yeah. There's a good chance those two leaderboards will make way for something else soon(ish). They come from a different time and did not transition too well. =D

Lash
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Joined: 21 Feb 2017, 10:15

Re: Question about Elegance/Efficiency

Postby Lash » 17 Mar 2017, 01:23

dbltnk wrote:Your info is outdated.

- Clans gain respect by donating resources to the valley defense (donation tents, G menu), by getting respect from players (P menu) and by defeating Jailors in the end fight (last hours of the server).
- Elegance is calculated through dividing the clan's respect value by the amount of violence enacted (kills, ganks, offensive sieges etc.).
- Efficiency is calculated through dividing the clan's respect value by it's player-hours spent in-game.
- Individual players can gain respect by getting respect from players (P menu) and by defeating Jailors in the end fight (last hours of the server).

[edit] The elegance leaderboards still seems to be broken a bit right now, is on our to-do list.


So it appears that the elegance and efficiency leaderboards are using the above algorithm or something similar to it, based on some experiments. Both of these systems actively punish conflict-based activity (elegance) and play time (efficiency) too heavily, since it divides your total respect value with a linearly increasing quantity given activity.

You will always have a strictly increasing elegance score as long as you don't kill, gank or siege. But then partaking in one element of the core game, results in a reduction (usually significant) of your score. Losing score day to day is a big problem.

You could have X efficiency your first day after playing say 1 hour, but then decide that you want to help out your friend get into the game the next day (so you aren't actively donating), and then your efficiency score actually drops to X/2. Or you decided to partake in a core part of the game, PvP, against another clan, but the bounty/respect gains was not as high as yesterday, and your elegance actually lowers on the leaderboard! You might as well have not played that day if this was your goal, that number actually has a pretty high chance of lowering!

This seems to promote simply playing very little after maxing out respect while completely avoiding conflict (elegance) or just maxing in your first hour and quitting (efficiency). The efficiency leader is currently at 6000, which probably means they exploited this. Perhaps by gifting themselves resources from an alternate character or friend not in their clan, donated a few times, and stopped playing.

What it should be, is that your daily earned elegance and efficiency can never decrease day to day. So for each day, you get an elegance score, and this adds to your cumulative elegance score. Same for efficiency. It never decreases day to day.

So the equation should be, at least:

Total elegance score = sum of daily elegance scores
Total efficiency score = sum of daily efficiency scores

But elegance and efficiency (which are added day to day), as metrics, should not punish more activity even within the day. It's supposed to be a measure of "quality", but a linear value for the denominator in the equation is too punishing for actually enjoying the game. Instead, the denominator should not be linear, but perhaps sub-linear. E.g.:

daily elegance score = daily respect divided by the square root of daily violence enacted

daily efficiency score = daily respect divided by the square root of daily player hours

So if daily respect was 10000, and violence enacted was 1 that day, then the daily elegance score is 10000
If daily respect was 10000, and violence enacted was 2 that day, then the daily elegance score is 7071 (not 5000)

So if daily respect was 10000, and player hours was 1 that day, then the daily efficiency score is 10000
If daily respect was 10000, and player hours was 2 that day, then the daily efficiency score is 7071 (not 5000)

You can make the function be more forgiving by using different functions for the denominator. This way, there are diminishing penalties for playing more in a day, and you avoid "wasted" effort, which also rewards a bit of play time and activity (but not too much). It also reduces punishment for "wasteful" but fun things in the game, like socializing.


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