An alternative to 'hits up to five targets'

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PsychoRomeo
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An alternative to 'hits up to five targets'

Postby PsychoRomeo » 08 Apr 2015, 17:40

I always thought this mechanic was a dirty work around, like cooldowns! I don't really understand that your reward for hitting multiple enemies with your AoE is that some of them are just not hit by your AoE.

What if there was a defensive stat that reduced the number of targets hit instead? Tankier builds would want to get this defensive stat because it means fewer of their allies get hit by an AoE.

For now, we'll call the stat Resist. Also, give a stat called Spell Power to spells.

The way this would work is that a spell (example, Incinerate) has a certain amount of Spell Power. Let's say, 300 base spell power and an additional 200 from the Caster's stats and equipment, totaling 500.

Let's say Caster looses Incinerate at five enemies. Four lightly armored foes, and one tank fellow.

Let's say that lightly armored foes have 100 Resist, but the tank fellow has some equipment and stats (such as a shield) and has a total of 300 Resist.

When Incinerate hits the five enemies, the spell hits the highest Resist player, then works its way down until it runs out of Spell Power. Because the tank fellow has 300 Resist, and Incinerate has 500 Spell Power, it hits the tank fellow then two lightly armored foes.

If the tank fellow were not present or not in the spell area, all four lightly armored foes would be hit, since their combined Resist doesn't exceed the spell's Spell Power. But since the tank fellow rushed in to protect the lightly armored foes, he was able to 'shield' two of them from the blast by soaking up majority of the Spell Power.

And just to clarify, the tank fellow doesn't take more damage, they just count as three targets instead of one target for the purposes of deciding who gets hit by the AoE.

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I think this makes a beautiful mechanic of tanks actively defending groups of their allies by shielding them with their bodies. Also, lightly armored and especially unarmored players would dive behind (near) a tank fellow to protect themselves. Slightly abstracted, but it actually gives the small, mobile aspect of unarmored players some real defensive value - as long as the tank fellow has enough resist to soak up all of the spell power.

I also think this mechanic would make a spell like Hunker Down absolutely beautiful.

This also adds a lot of dynamic elements to large scale battles, and even just mob packs. How one composes large groups is important since they would be so vulnerable to AoE if tank fellows were not present, or if they all didn't have at least a moderate amount of Resist.

And lastly, I think this gives an extra layer of accuracy to players casting AoEs. If they can cast around the tank fellow and hit only the vulnerable players, they will see themselves doing a lot more damage.

Thoughts? I personally feel that adding layers like this is true skill based combat (as well as the removal of cooldowns, but that's another thread for another time).
Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life.

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Emissary
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Re: An alternative to 'hits up to five targets'

Postby Emissary » 09 Apr 2015, 08:33

At face value I really like this idea and would totally support experimenting with it.

If we used a system like this, I would actually support totally removing number restrictions for AoE's. I can see us running into problems with zergs otherwise. One of the most effective ways a small group can combat larger numbers just rushing them is through effective use of AoE's, and if only 3 of those 20 are getting hit by your spells, even if you manage to hit 12, you are still at a pretty solid disadvantage.

A way that (again) Dota deals with some AoE's is by increasing/decreasing damage depending on how many people are in the area. This makes positioning extremely important and you have to pay attention to what enemy spells you are facing. Some AoE's will deal a huge amount of damage, but will spread the damage over every single target inside the area - so simply stack on your ally if they get focused and you will both only take half damage. Conversely, some spells do more damage for every target inside the area, so you need to be mindful of this and spread out. I am actually a big fan of this mixture of damages for different spells, it means that you can't simply stack up and roll around as a ball, because sometimes that might be what directly causes your team to wipe.

This was actually my biggest issue with Guild Wars 2 PvP - even moderately skills players could dominate if they simply stacked on each other and spammed there spells while they rolled around in a ball. Sure, this takes discipline, but it leads to pretty monotonous gameplay in my opinion. There needs to be counters to every playstyle, and counters to counters, and dominating should require mixing up your approach and positioning depending on who you face. That tank you mention with a high resist might jump in to take the brunt of an AoE, only to see and incoming projectile that multiplies damage on high resist targets, meaning they need to hightail it out of there. These kind of mixed up spells mean that roles aren't so simple as "I am the tank I stand in the middle of the damage 100% of the time and then everyone high fives me."

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dbltnk
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Re: An alternative to 'hits up to five targets'

Postby dbltnk » 09 Apr 2015, 11:46

Thanks for the input. I sadly don't have the time to really evaluate this and its consequences right now. But I do see the potential in what you propose and so I would hate to see the idea get lost. So please do post it over at gameloop.io to make sure I'll be able to get back on that later.

Alex

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PsychoRomeo
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Re: An alternative to 'hits up to five targets'

Postby PsychoRomeo » 10 Apr 2015, 00:53

That tank you mention with a high resist might jump in to take the brunt of an AoE, only to see and incoming projectile that multiplies damage on high resist targets, meaning they need to hightail it out of there. These kind of mixed up spells mean that roles aren't so simple as "I am the tank I stand in the middle of the damage 100% of the time and then everyone high fives me."

To be honest, I don't like this mechanic. I never want to feel like I have to protect my allies by jumping out of the way so they can take a spell to the face alone. That just feels wrong.

I understand what you mean with the high-fiving bit though. Ideally the tank is an active shield, not a passive damage soak. I think the first-collision abilities (like the bow attacks) will incentivize will have the tank taking on a more active role with the people they're defending.

https://gameloop.io/g/das-tal/ideas/alt ... ur-targets
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grayfox
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Re: An alternative to 'hits up to five targets'

Postby grayfox » 10 Apr 2015, 16:51

i agree with emissary on the dmg aoe distribution , it is a good feature that will make the game better in my openion as small group have the chance to defeat larger group by skill.

(oh and the increase dmg per enemy is awesome too) :)
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